Comments on: Vicarious redemption http://www.jeremystyron.com/2012/10/vicarious-redemption/ A freethinker and former believer blogs about atheism, philosophy, religion and politics Mon, 20 May 2013 03:45:54 +0000 hourly 1 By: jeremystyron http://www.jeremystyron.com/2012/10/vicarious-redemption/#comment-25965 jeremystyron Sun, 07 Oct 2012 00:34:55 +0000 http://www.jeremystyron.com/?p=7899#comment-25965 Agreed. To add a couple points: the main reason that Christians argue that we have freewill is to make it seem that we, are our own agents, freely choose or reject God, thus in not choosing him, we basically accept (at least to God) that we are resigned to spend an eternity in hell. By suggesting that we make an conscious choice to accept or reject God, believers make it seem somehow more permissible that the infidels burn forever because they had the choice and did not choose "correctly."

Of course, in addition to the points you raised, when you think about it, there are only two "choices" from the Christian view: accept Christ or suffer for all eternity. There is no choice, for instance, to reject all gods and be allowed to live your life and die without no afterlife in sight or, there is no choice to simply proclaim religion as irrelevant altogether. Forcing people to make a choice about eternity (almost at gun point) is not free will.

Thanks for reading.

]]> By: truelogic http://www.jeremystyron.com/2012/10/vicarious-redemption/#comment-25963 truelogic Sun, 07 Oct 2012 00:07:03 +0000 http://www.jeremystyron.com/?p=7899#comment-25963 Don't you just love the free will argument of Christians. I've always wondered why this concept is never challenged in a debate with Christians.
God is the potter and he forms the clay…one vessel for honor and one for dishonor. If God created a person for dishonor (a purpose) then how does that person have free will?
Scripture states that "you can do nothing but for the father" in a couple of places. It even has Jesus stating that he can do NOTHING but for the father. If Jesus has no free will then how does man?

If everything is according to the will of God then how can anything be according to the free will of man?

If God approved a time for every matter and every event then how can man have free will. If God planned everything "from the beginning" how can man have free will? Scripture is full of examples of man not having free will and if it is God that "created the wicked for the day of evil" and "created the waster (satan) to destroy" how can God require a sacrifice for the sins of man when it is God that decided man would sin and directed it all.
"yet all is of God" and "God operates all in all". where in the heck is free will in those claimed words of God? there isn't.

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